Nicholas says: I still think its Guard, wolves and BA / nids
Jon says: Space Wolves are very cost efficient, and counter assault removes one of the weaknesses that BA have from their list - or at least mitigates it.
Jon says: A good IG player can beat either, if he deploys and correctly and doesn't try to force it.
Paul says: Explain? So basically play keep away?
Jon says: Split up. Don’t castle so they have to choose targets.
Nicholas says: Blood angels have a hard time being point efficient.
Paul says: Blood Angels have the Sanguinor and Mephiston.
Nicholas says: I don't care too much about the Sanguinor. Mephiston can be nasty if they can hide him.
Paul says: He is a tiny fig in need of a new scuplt.. every figure produced in the last 8 years gives Mephiston a cover save. I am glad he is truly a bad ass.. i am fighting the black rage as we speak.
Jon says: TWC are great fun, but I like Demolishers and Medusae.
Nicholas says: Sangunior I am not worried so much about because he is still only tougness 4 and with a couple of bad rolls he is dead.
Paul says: Nick.. the Sanguinor is the engine in the BA corvette. He makes every unit better.
Nicholas says: You do realize that a 20 man infantry squad can call Sanguinor with first rank second rank or have a good chance of bringing him down to one wound?
Jon says: 58 shots. 29 hits. 9.57 wounds
Nicholas says: fail 3.33
Paul says: Check your math.. you put in feel no pain?
Nicholas says: You have a good chance of bringing him down or at least crippling him.
Paul says: He's still alive and murdering your face with feel no pain.
Jon says: He takes 1.6 wounds with FNP on average.
Nicholas says: On a model like that I don' think FNP is going to help your going to miss out on your rolls most likely just following stastics in a way
Paul says: Heh. good plan.. make the guy roll 1s with voodoo. I get what you’re trying to say though. With these characters your eggs are in one basket – but it’s a damn pretty basket.
Jon says: But it's the plasma ccs that shoots him anyway. Plasma ccs are a good shooting unit.
Nicholas says: He is jsut affected by bad dice rolls to easy
Paul says: I think the key to the whole BA dex is combined assaults. Where you have these Super Characters acting in tandem with the mundane squads.
Jon says: BA are too fragile and they require the charge to be good. Unless you're a gimp and want to shoot with them.
Paul says: As guard players you will likely have a difficult time with rhinos screaming forward 18 inches and smoking. Or do you think otherwise?
Jon says: So you drive empty boxes in their face and kill them.
Rob Baer - MBG says: Wall of doom
Nicholas says: I hate to say it but I tihnk Ba could do the rhino rush in 5th edition pretty good. Especially moving 18 and popping smoke.
Paul says: Bad dice rolls aside you have to bank on at least rolling average. The Sanguinor is there to help suck up fire, and he has to, because you can't ignore him.
Jon says: I'll drive empty chimeras right at them
Nicholas says: As guard in my tank I can ignore him, he is only str 6 on the charge.
Rob Baer - MBG says: Yep what Jon and Nick said.
Jon says: Smoke means you have to kill it twice - and when have you reall suffered for the ability to kill a rhino twice with IG?
Paul says: Fair. It is more the fact that they are 21 or so inches across the board when they disembark from the wreck. With super characters flying over top of the wrecks.
Nicholas says: and some are going to be fearless or you hope at least.
Jon says: Yeah, that's why you bump them with chimeras to push them back.
Rob Baer - MBG says: There is that. But the Manticore or EXE should deal with them.
Jon says: That's okay, I can lose a few sqauds to super heroes and still have plenty of flashlights to get the job done.
Paul says: I'll buy that. But are you not just offering up line of sight blocking wrecks that will benefit the BA more than you?
Nicholas says: Yes and no, Paul.
Jon says: They have to come over them, slowing them a bit
Nicholas says: by the time they break the wall of wreckage, you can create enough distance from your lines. Then they have to cross that ground again.
Rob Baer - MBG says: Chimera MVP?
Jon says: If they're crossing that wall on turn 3, I'm gonna win.
Jon says: Chimeras are certainly awesome.
Nicholas says: You could take the colossus. That just ignores all questions like this and gets to the point you being dead.
Paul says: So you guys think that the key is keeping them out of assault range until at least round 3?
Jon says: Nick is going a bit crazy about the Colossus right now
Nicholas says: Ya, well f*ck your cover save.
Jon says: That's the game, for sure.
Paul says: It's not bad. It always seems to lose the math war in some category for me. What is making it come to the front for you?
Jon says: Guard can control the pace with so many disposable units that can't really be ignored
Rob Baer - MBG says: How do you feel about dealing with nid MC
Paul says: Rob - melta.
Rob Baer - MBG says: Chimera Wise I mean
Paul says: Enough multi lasers kill anything, I guess.
Jon says: Rob, I drive right into them and let them kill something, so the bug player feels better.
Rob Baer - MBG says: Thats what i was wondering but sometimes it gives them free move
Nicholas says: Nids MC are not the way to play I think with the Nids, IG just blow them up, especially in America with the terrain we have around.
Paul says: The lack of 5th ed terrain really favors shooting armies.
Jon says: I've played with an Armored Sentinel or two, too. Those screw the Sanguinor just fine.
Paul says: Armored Sent? really?
Jon says: Yeah, those guys are awesome against Marines.
Nicholas says: If those marines don't have a power fist!
Paul says: Rob has a good point about feeding enemies with weapon skills to your opponent.
Jon says: About the terrain - We're building big hills this year for next year’s Wargames Con. They may be ugly hills but you’ll be able to put figures on them.
Nicholas says: Ya till we really see a difference in terrain IG is going to have a big advantage.
Nicholas says: to hide land raiders in the middle of the table paul just ofr you
Jon says: heh, that hill was pretty good for Ben there.
Paul says: Land raiders, terminators, special characters and tac squads - oh my!
Rob Baer - MBG says: No seriously do you run in an wall off Trygons and then burn them down?
Jon says: I do
Paul says: Rob - yes.
Paul says: How would you guys have dealt with that situation where there is a giant hill in the center of the table with over 1000 points of marines hiding behind it?
Nicholas says: spilt my groups into two
Jon says: I'd have split
Nicholas says: take the hill out of the equation and he has to spilt his forces which he can't do.
Rob Baer - MBG says: Yeah you have to have wings
Jon says: And done some outflanking probably.
Nicholas says: You can't stay together otherwise the multiple assaults are goign to hurt
Rob Baer - MBG says: right
Paul says: I couldn't ever finish the dread he had screening one flank off. Some bad luck.. But if I had run up on the one flank dread would have eaten me and then I ran the risk of creating a wall terrain wall made out of my Chimeras. He played a solid game though – thanks for the Monday morning quarter backing guys! But that is really what this article is about, helping to give people a tournament advantage.
For part four please click here. This will take you over to Darkwynn's Corner.
4 comments:
One comment off the top of my head... I am assuming Nick/Nicholas is Nick Rose from BoLS & Jon is Jwolf from the same club. Make sure to mention that up front in the article for readers who may have not read the first two articles in this series. You want your readers to know these guys are heavy hitters. It becomes apparent further down towards the second half of this article but maybe some people who would have stopped reading for whatever reason would have followed along otherwise. :D
Anyways about the Sanguinor, he is the best force multiplier for Blood Angels and is much more reliable than his psychic counterpart, Mephiston. Mephiston has always seems meh to me now, especially with so many SW players running Rune Priests. Don't get me wrong... Mephiston is still a beast even without his psychic powers but with the Sanguinor you never have to worry about it, which to me is another big plus for a competitive player... The less you have to worry about the more you can focus on winning. The Sanguinor has the constant +1A plus you basically can have another HQ in your army which is a great thing in terms of the points you are paying to use him. I run the Sanguinor in a Stormraven and will typically hold him back, engaging him into close combat during the second half of the game for the big boost he brings to the table. The Stormraven provides protection for the Sanguinor prior to close combat so you don't have to worry about stuff like death to a million and one lasguns. I pair him up with an assault dreadnaught and together they can wreck really hard units like Wolflords on Thunderwolves attached to a squad of Thunderwolves. I think these kind of tactics will become much prevalent when the official Thunderhawk kit is released by GW with the 1st wave of Grey Knights this coming January in 2011. So I am very much a big fan of the Sanguinor now and think he is the best choice for an HQ in a jump style BA list. Sure he is S6 on the charge as compared to S10 (Mephiston casting the Sword) but against most vehicles you are hitting armor 10 with multiple attacks plus he gets to reroll one missed hit since his sword is master crafted, so he is still a great tank hunter. If he is getting locked up in combat with walkers then I think you are doing something wrong... Only Grinders, defilers and DC dreadnaughts have a good chance of running him down (i.e., fleet).
G
Where can I find the first two parts of the conversation?
Part 1 is over on bols. Part two is on spikey bits. Part four is soon to be on darkwyns corner. Had a little timing snafu.
One comment off the top of my head... I am assuming Nick/Nicholas is Nick Rose from BoLS & Jon is Jwolf from the same club. Make sure to mention that up front in the article for readers who may have not read the first two articles in this series. You want your readers to know these guys are heavy hitters. It becomes apparent further down towards the second half of this article but maybe some people who would have stopped reading for whatever reason would have followed along otherwise. :D
Anyways about the Sanguinor, he is the best force multiplier for Blood Angels and is much more reliable than his psychic counterpart, Mephiston. Mephiston has always seems meh to me now, especially with so many SW players running Rune Priests. Don't get me wrong... Mephiston is still a beast even without his psychic powers but with the Sanguinor you never have to worry about it, which to me is another big plus for a competitive player... The less you have to worry about the more you can focus on winning. The Sanguinor has the constant +1A plus you basically can have another HQ in your army which is a great thing in terms of the points you are paying to use him. I run the Sanguinor in a Stormraven and will typically hold him back, engaging him into close combat during the second half of the game for the big boost he brings to the table. The Stormraven provides protection for the Sanguinor prior to close combat so you don't have to worry about stuff like death to a million and one lasguns. I pair him up with an assault dreadnaught and together they can wreck really hard units like Wolflords on Thunderwolves attached to a squad of Thunderwolves. I think these kind of tactics will become much prevalent when the official Thunderhawk kit is released by GW with the 1st wave of Grey Knights this coming January in 2011. So I am very much a big fan of the Sanguinor now and think he is the best choice for an HQ in a jump style BA list. Sure he is S6 on the charge as compared to S10 (Mephiston casting the Sword) but against most vehicles you are hitting armor 10 with multiple attacks plus he gets to reroll one missed hit since his sword is master crafted, so he is still a great tank hunter. If he is getting locked up in combat with walkers then I think you are doing something wrong... Only Grinders, defilers and DC dreadnaughts have a good chance of running him down (i.e., fleet).
G
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